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Post ggssmm23 Mar 2017, 16:30

Latest post of the previous page:

I am american, but from the country of football :D
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Post Seveli1323 Mar 2017, 17:09

ggssmm wrote:I am american, but from the country of football :D
Didn't knew u'r from Brazil man, that's awesome :!: Anyhow yes, for sure the best eva' to watch!!! And one of the greatest ever to play the game! And i agree, Messi and Ronaldo can't hold a candle to him :!:
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Post tonic gin23 Mar 2017, 22:59

Seveli13 wrote:
ggssmm wrote:I am american, but from the country of football :D
Didn't knew u'r from Brazil man, that's awesome :!: Anyhow yes, for sure the best eva' to watch!!! And one of the greatest ever to play the game! And i agree, Messi and Ronaldo can't hold a candle to him :!:
Dinho certainly was one of the most gifted talents ever and he clearly was better than CR ever was, but Messi is better than him imo. Ronaldinho was arguably more fun to watch but Messi's overall game is better. Without wanting to go into detail now, experts (coaches, players) call him the greatest ever for a reason.
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Post Seveli1323 Mar 2017, 23:07

tonic gin wrote:
Dinho certainly was one of the most gifted talents ever and he clearly was better than CR ever was, but Messi is better than him imo. Ronaldinho was arguably more fun to watch but Messi's overall game is better. Without wanting to go into detail now, experts (coaches, players) call him the greatest ever for a reason.
With that logic CR is overall a better player than Messi, especially on the defensive end...and have in mind that when CR finally got a proper midfield aka Modric they've won 2 CL in 3 years, somethin' Messi had throughout his pretty much whole career, he arguably had the best midfield duo of all time in Iniesta and Xavi...and i hate CR, but facts are facts ;) I will give u consistency and more records, goals etc...but what Ronaldinho did in those 2,3 years is somethin' Messi and Ronaldo can only dream... ;)
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Post tonic gin23 Mar 2017, 23:31

Seveli13 wrote: With that logic CR is overall a better player than Messi, especially on the defensive end...and have in mind that when CR finally got a proper midfield aka Modric they've won 2 CL in 3 years, somethin' Messi had throughout his pretty much whole career, he arguably had the best midfield duo of all time in Iniesta and Xavi...and i hate CR, but facts are facts ;) I will give u consistency and more records, goals etc...but what Ronaldinho did in those 2,3 years is somethin' Messi and Ronaldo can only dream... ;)
CR is not nearly as good as Messi. Physically, he is an athelte and better developed than Messi, but Messi is clearly better in terms of technique.
His vision, dribbling, passing are out of this world, something CR never had to such extend. CRs passing is average and his shot conversion rate is also not nearly as good as Messi's. He has a worse shot/goal ration than Messi, a lot less completed dribblings etc etc. Yes, his left foot was stronger (in terms of reliability, not force) than Messi's right foot for a couple of years (not anymore) and he's arguably one of the best headers of the game, ever, and I'm giving him credit for that.
I've seen countless of data (shot conversion, efficiency, this mid 2014 article https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/li ... mpossible/, which of course is incredibly outdated due to Messi's massive improvement Jan 15) to back this up but it's easy to find anyway.

Since Xavi and Iniesta slowed down due to age, Messi has won worlds best playmaker several times, do you see what kind of passes he produces in every match? His passing is better than that of Xavi & Iniesta, his passing accuracy is crazy and statistically only (not sure if it is but highly likely) below those of Xavi's and Iniesta's is because he's taking a lot more risks passing. Goals and the media hype because of those goals are the only thing that puts Ronaldo on the level that Messi is. Otherwise, Messi is in his own class and Ronaldo "just" world class.
It's not like CR has had the worst support behind him either with Alonso, Ozil, Modric (who is better than an aging Iniesta right now), Bale, Di Maria etc.. Real and Barca are teams of equal strength.
Xavi & Iniesta began to properly harmonize with Guardiola becoming their coach. Coaching deserves a lot of credit too, even if you got a stacked team.

I mean cmon.. You can't really think that Ronaldo is the better player
With all the negativity/trolling you purposely bring to this forum, when you're not hating on something you usually know what you're talking about.
Or well, you see the world how you want to see it.

And yes, I know what Ronaldinho did for Barca, I've been watching Barca games for a long time. He was unstoppable, but so is Messi, just (for some) less entertaining and obvious.

And yeah, this comment is a bit longer than I wanted and probably not well structured because I jumped back and forth. but I want to watch the Argentina Chile game now, so I'm leaving it as it is now.
Last edited by tonic gin on 24 Mar 2017, 00:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Post PATWELL23 Mar 2017, 23:40

Seveli13 wrote:
ggssmm wrote:Last tuesday was the birthday of the best player i've seen playing.

In my opinion, none of today's top players can top his technique and 'joga bonito' playing style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8K8E8FSvo8
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Post raresdascalasu24 Mar 2017, 00:11

tonic gin wrote:
Seveli13 wrote: With that logic CR is overall a better player than Messi, especially on the defensive end...and have in mind that when CR finally got a proper midfield aka Modric they've won 2 CL in 3 years, somethin' Messi had throughout his pretty much whole career, he arguably had the best midfield duo of all time in Iniesta and Xavi...and i hate CR, but facts are facts ;) I will give u consistency and more records, goals etc...but what Ronaldinho did in those 2,3 years is somethin' Messi and Ronaldo can only dream... ;)
CR is not nearly as good as Messi. Physically, he is an athelte and better developed than Messi, but Messi is clearly better in terms of technique.
His vision, dribbling, passing are out of this world, something CR never had to such extend. CRs passing is average and his shot conversion rate is also not nearly as good as Messi's. He has a worse shot/goal ration than Messi, a lot less completed dribblings etc etc. Yes, his left foot was stronger (in terms of reliability, not force) than Messi's right foot for a couple of years (not anymore) and he's arguably one of the best headers of the game, ever, and I'm giving him credit for that.
I've seen countless of data (shot conversion, efficiency, this mid 2014 article https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/li ... mpossible/, which of course is incredibly outdated due to Messi's massive improvement Jan 15) to back this up but it's easy to find anyway.

Since Xavi and Iniesta slowed down due to age, Messi has won worlds best playmaker several times, do you see what kind of passes he produces in every match? His passing is better than that of Xavi & Iniesta, his passing accuracy is crazy and statistically only (not sure if it is but highly likely) below those of Xavi's and Iniesta's is because he's taking a lot more risks passing. Goals and the media hype because of those goals are the only thing that puts Ronaldo on the level that Messi is. Otherwise, Messi is in his own class and Ronaldo "just" world class.
It's not like CR has had the worst support behind him either with Alonso, Ozil, Modric (who is better than an aging Iniesta right now), Bale, Di Maria etc.. Real and Barca are teams of equal strength.
Xavi & Iniesta began to properly harmonize with Guardiola becoming their coach. Coaching deserves a lot of credit too, even if you got a stacked team.
You're right. You basically said it the way it is, and I can top by saying that this discussion of who's the best of the bunch can last forever, cause every time there's going to be someone that thinks and views it from another perspective. But for reals now, Messi and Ronaldo surpassed Ronaldinho a long time ago. Just look at Ronaldo, he's 32 and he's still scoring at almost the same level, even though he slowly transforms into a central striker. At that age, Ronaldinho was fucking it up for Flamengo.

To compare, Ronaldinho's level in his prime was something like a much more composed version of Neymar nowadays. Ronaldinho started to decline sharply at 28, that says much, his physical condition has always been precarious. Brilliant player, world-class for sure, but not god-tier level. Cristiano is basically the perfect footballer, taking into account that he is an all-rounder regarding skills and strength (many other players reached this level though, in different eras so it's basically impossible to compare), while Messi has that supranatural element. There is no player in this whole history of the game that compares to Messi regarding his style of play and dribbling.

Anyways, in terms of effectiveness, both Messi and Ronaldo are the same, so it's really unnecessary to compare the both. Two players with different styles of play, different uses but the same effectiveness; that's why they win Ballon'd Or's alternatively, each of them deserves a part of it. But god, don't put Ronaldinho in.. there are many players post-2000 that reached his level.
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Post Seveli1324 Mar 2017, 12:20

tonic gin wrote:
CR is not nearly as good as Messi. Physically, he is an athelte and better developed than Messi, but Messi is clearly better in terms of technique.
His vision, dribbling, passing are out of this world, something CR never had to such extend. CRs passing is average and his shot conversion rate is also not nearly as good as Messi's. He has a worse shot/goal ration than Messi, a lot less completed dribblings etc etc. Yes, his left foot was stronger (in terms of reliability, not force) than Messi's right foot for a couple of years (not anymore) and he's arguably one of the best headers of the game, ever, and I'm giving him credit for that.
I've seen countless of data (shot conversion, efficiency, this mid 2014 article https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/li ... mpossible/, which of course is incredibly outdated due to Messi's massive improvement Jan 15) to back this up but it's easy to find anyway.

Since Xavi and Iniesta slowed down due to age, Messi has won worlds best playmaker several times, do you see what kind of passes he produces in every match? His passing is better than that of Xavi & Iniesta, his passing accuracy is crazy and statistically only (not sure if it is but highly likely) below those of Xavi's and Iniesta's is because he's taking a lot more risks passing. Goals and the media hype because of those goals are the only thing that puts Ronaldo on the level that Messi is. Otherwise, Messi is in his own class and Ronaldo "just" world class.
It's not like CR has had the worst support behind him either with Alonso, Ozil, Modric (who is better than an aging Iniesta right now), Bale, Di Maria etc.. Real and Barca are teams of equal strength.
Xavi & Iniesta began to properly harmonize with Guardiola becoming their coach. Coaching deserves a lot of credit too, even if you got a stacked team.

I mean cmon.. You can't really think that Ronaldo is the better player
With all the negativity/trolling you purposely bring to this forum, when you're not hating on something you usually know what you're talking about.
Or well, you see the world how you want to see it.

And yes, I know what Ronaldinho did for Barca, I've been watching Barca games for a long time. He was unstoppable, but so is Messi, just (for some) less entertaining and obvious.

And yeah, this comment is a bit longer than I wanted and probably not well structured because I jumped back and forth. but I want to watch the Argentina Chile game now, so I'm leaving it as it is now.
Lol, comin' from a Barca and Messi fanboy that's rich :lol: :D Gotta love u'r "objectivity" :lol:
I will agree with RARESDASCALASU that in terms of consistency that's correct, cause Ronaldihno did start to decline around 28, one would argue at even 27, cause he never wanted to practice, it was all clubs and partying...somethin' like Iverson did but for his prime, those 3 years, Messi and Ronaldo can't touch him...and i know u'r a super fanboy but try reading, as for watching a always enjoyed Messi more, it's a personal taste i guess and the fact that i never liked Real Madrid nor Christiano cause he played for UTD and i'm an Arsenal fan :D So i will go on a limb here and say that i have more objectivity than u on this matter, no offense ;) As far as those stats, take a closer look the playin' style of Barca and then Real :) And sorry, but to say Messi's has even equal right foot to Christiano's left is pure ignorance :D And why don't u bring on the stat that CR has more goals than appearances in Real which is just crazy :shock: Messi just always played in a better system aka Iniesta-Xavi system...and u can see now he's not on the same level as he was while those two were in their primes, still great, just not as great, nor is Barca...case and point Spanish National Team 2008-2012 when Iniesta and Xavi just dominated the midfield...no hate man but i don't think u quite understand the greatness of those two and how much easier is to play forward knowing those two are pulling all the strings behind u, even if you fuck up somethin', case and point Paul Pogba, what he is now and what he was when the grand maestro Pirlo was playin' with him... ;)
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Post tonic gin24 Mar 2017, 12:28

Seveli13 wrote:
Lol, comin' from a Barca and Messi fanboy that's rich :lol: :D Gotta love u'r "objectivity" :lol:
I will agree with RARESDASCALASU that in terms of consistency that's correct, cause Ronaldihno did start to decline around 28, one would argue at even 27, cause he never wanted to practice, it was all clubs and partying...somethin' like Iverson did but for his prime, those 3 years, Messi and Ronaldo can't touch him...and i know u'r a super fanboy but try reading, as for watching a always enjoyed Messi more, it's a personal taste i guess and the fact that i never liked Real Madrid nor Christiano cause he played for UTD and i'm an Arsenal fan :D So i will go on a limb here and say that i have more objectivity than u on this matter, no offense ;) As far as those stats, take a closer look the playin' style of Barca and then Real :) And sorry, but to say Messi's has even equal right foot to Christiano's left is pure ignorance :D And why don't u bring on the stat that CR has more goals than appearances in Real which is just crazy :shock: Messi just always played in a better system aka Iniesta-Xavi system...and u can see now he's not on the same level as he was while those two were in their primes, still great, just not as great, nor is Barca...case and point Spanish National Team 2008-2012 when Iniesta and Xavi just dominated the midfield...no hate man but i don't think u quite understand the greatness of those two and how much easier is to play forward knowing those two are pulling all the strings behind u, even if you fuck up somethin', case and point Paul Pogba, what he is now and what he was when the grand maestro Pirlo was playin' with him... ;)
Messi's right foot has massively improved since the start of 2015, Ronaldo is in decline and his weaker foot definitely is not better than Messi's weaker.

Xavi & Iniesta have nothing to do with Messi's freak vision, passing, dribbling, finishing and accuracy in general. Messi has to play a different role because the system doesn't exist anymore, because Barca lack creativity, which is why he plays much deeper nowadays (hence playmaker of the year awards...). He's also been banging out the passes since then. Before he had support and could primarily focus on scoring goals.

Guess I'm done here. I knew it was pointless to discuss anything with you from the beginning. I am a Barca and Messi fanboy, but I do understand the game.
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Post Seveli1324 Mar 2017, 12:32

tonic gin wrote:
Guess I'm done here. I knew it was pointless to discuss anything with you from the beginning. I am a Barca and Messi fanboy, but I do understand the game.
Yeap, and i clearly don't and i "see the world the way i want it" :roll: :lol: Have a good one mate ;)
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Post tonic gin23 Apr 2017, 21:04

What a Clasico :!:

One of the most exciting, if not the most exciting game of the season and Messi & Ter Stegen to decide it for Barca. Has been a very even match for the most parts, Real Madrid (of course) with some calls in their favour as Casemiro should've been sent of before halftime already. Ramos made a foolish challenge and deserved a red.

My heart stopped when Real scored the 2:2 in the 85th but thanks to Sergi Roberto's last minute effort, Messi's goal and overall a wonderfully executed counter attack I can sleep peacefully after such a taxing day!

Messi = GOAT.

Full match, Highlights and Analysis below:
http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2017 ... l-match-2/
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